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All member TV Drama Agreement Webinar - Shared screen with speaker view
Paula Lamont
21:57
You should be able to submit questions here
darrell briggs
22:24
Something to discuss this evening is the communications that have taken place today from PACT/Producers to crew directly for jobs after September 1st asking crew ot ignore BECTu's advice to reject
Tim Potter
22:41
The Streamers always say that they follow the local agreements
Chris Plevin
29:43
Rejection of this offer doesn't mean we can't negotiate further, but we need PACT to get much closer to our conditions - we have a set of new T&Cs that set out a better work life balance for crew
Charlotte Sewell
32:01
AS Chris says…Of course want an Agreement too BUT getting them to go into proper detail is what we want… and not just push out a set of bullet points that are way too vague! And there needs to be proper revision of the rest of 2017 agreement - which was ALWAYS going to have to happen
Tim Potter
32:03
PACT are falsely saying that their offer is the culmination of negotiations. It is at worst an out of the blue ultimatum, at best a next step position. We now put a counter offer rather than roll over and play dead.
Chris Plevin
33:15
Although non members can't vote, it would be useful if members can help non members to understand the reasons for rejection of this ‘offer’, and help them see that PACT are worried - hence the letters!
darrell briggs
34:27
And that is what the branches voted for Tim, to officially present PACt with our Terms on the event of a ‘reject’ vote from Members
Tim Potter
34:41
The guidance actually Broke the agreement.
gavin finney
34:46
It would be good to know exactly what the BECTU response currently is to each headline point from PACT.
darrell briggs
36:02
EG the offer to pay 2T for bank holidays, they will just run the working week from tuesday to saturday and avoid the bank holiday payment
darrell briggs
36:38
each Branch has produced response to PACTs offer line by line
darrell briggs
37:23
What is important to remeber with outr
Chris Plevin
37:55
Gavin, YHM
Tim Potter
38:19
If they don't work to BECTU terms then turn away. No Crew + No Shoot. That will bring them crawling back to us.
darrell briggs
39:16
what is vital to remember with out proposal, despite it being rubbished by PACT as being unrealistic, is that for any production running an 0800-1900 day, there will be NO increase in cost. This is only about work life balance
Charlotte Sewell
40:59
and about recognising all work is work
darrell briggs
41:03
the wording on prep & wrap for the ‘technical' departments is unnacceptable and open to exploitation. no unpaid work
Chris Plevin
41:13
PACT have slipped Script Supervisors on the list - they want to come off that list!!
Margaret Spohrer
41:35
We are asking for Art department and script supervisors to be removed from P&W list from PACT
darrell briggs
43:35
work is work, loading a van is work, packing equipment away is work
Chris Plevin
43:55
Note also that they do say in their offer that it is ‘off-camera work’ - it's still work though!
Charlotte Sewell
44:01
we have put out our annotated version of the PACT proposal - point by point … it is a coordinated view from Costume, HMU, LOcs, ADs, Props, Art, Production
Chris Plevin
45:01
As have camera and sound - see Instagram and other social media
darrell briggs
46:42
band info has been omitted rom many deal memos for some time now
Chris Plevin
46:43
The change of bands proposed is an attempt to downgrade rates.
Daniel Roberts
46:44
As have post-production, see the Rough Assembly website
darrell briggs
47:23
I cant count how many times an LP has said: ‘ we are low band 2' like that is its own band
erin large
48:51
can we also abolish the term along with 30/30 “aggregated 60 mins or 60/30”?! it should be forbidden.
Tim Potter
49:32
They have let it be known that the rates they want are as low as 60% of what we are getting now, and they will want our rate cards withdrawn to stop us telling the truth to our members. what is the point of a union that does not negotiate the actual pay of its members.
Chris Plevin
50:05
Erin prep and wrap is gone in our proposed terms and conditions - work is work whether or not it takes place before or after shooting hours, and should be paid at the appropriate rate.
Chris Plevin
51:28
To be honest if the worst exploiters go elsewhere, the industry will be thereby improved! And wherever they go, local technicians will fight these poor conditions.
Charlotte Sewell
52:04
Erin - P&W was at the top of the Negotiations as everything else was linked to solving it. The aim is all hours worked are recognised and paid.
Tim Potter
52:20
We will always be a bargain compared with the US.
Chris Plevin
52:33
Streamers and studios have made huge investments here and they won't write that off easily
erin large
52:39
but the wording itself as per the anonymous comment just made still sounds grey?
erin large
53:32
that's my worry of how some producers may interpret the wording itself
Charlotte Sewell
53:52
Not sure which anonymous comment you mean?
Claire Williams
53:56
Erin - those grey areas are why we have asked members to reject the proposal - there are too many grey areas.
Aisha Haywood
54:23
Having just done 5 weeks of shooting on what was 6 day working weeks on splits and all standard working days... I feel any after wrap work that extends after midnight, because camera wrap was at 00.00am, should be be assessed and charged at a higher rate too or abolished completely. Is this issue being addressed?
Charlotte Sewell
54:24
Yes as Claire says we want clarity and that’s what we want from PACT -
erin large
54:25
@charlotte i refer you to the Q&A tab which has a comment referring to the wording of it.
Charlotte Sewell
55:26
Sorry I cant see that comment in the Q&A ..
Chris Plevin
56:10
Aisha yes. This is addressed in our proposed terms and conditions .
Claire Williams
56:11
Erin only hosts and panelist’s can see the q and A - attending reps cannot sorry
Chris Plevin
59:24
Their statement on ‘customary’ preparation opens the back door to prep and wrap again, and cannot be acceptable
Chris Plevin
01:00:28
Exactly Paula!!
Angus Hudson
01:00:32
The term P&W should not be used. We should be paid for every hour we are required to work.
Claire Williams
01:00:32
Absolutely Chris - another vague grey statement.
erin large
01:00:37
well said Paula
Charlotte Sewell
01:01:54
we seek no interpretation or wiggle room for the whole agreement because that has been the issue - the word Customary should be banned from all clauses! WE hate the words prep and wrap and want to end it and have said this to PACT
Aisha Haywood
01:02:45
🙌
Charlotte Sewell
01:03:39
There has been a HUGE amount of work done by the workshop/workroom crew along with BECTU
darrell briggs
01:04:22
Before we reach the end of this webinar, could we please outline to members the next steps. Namely that at a reps meeting the other night, Reps voted in favour of officially issuing PACT with our terms so that they can ballot their members with put proposal, as they asked us to do with members re: their proposal. It is very important for members to realise that that is what is happening next in this process
Chris Plevin
01:04:53
PACT have a habit of deliberately keeping language vague in their proposals - we have been trying to get the detail pinned down so there can be no misinterpretation - this has led in the past to disputes between crew and production - this is damaging and destructive and clarity is needed so we can all get on with the job we love!
darrell briggs
01:08:36
Spencer, we actually have a much clearer action to take that branch reps voted in favour of, please can weexplain to members what the reps voted for at the recent meeting?
Angus Hudson
01:09:58
What happens if the current ballot says to accept PACTs offer?
Charlotte Sewell
01:11:56
we do still have to finalise the BECTU T&Cs
Andy Jennings
01:12:15
Gavin change your settings to everyone via blue button so entire audience can see your comments.
Gavin Struthers
01:12:36
The negotiating team (across branches) has spent a huge amount of time putting together T7C’s that are watertight and protect the work/life balance. It feels like PACT have put this together in a very adhock and lazy way. We should be putting our T&C’s forward and use this as the basis for any new agreement.
darrell briggs
01:14:41
can we talk about the letters that PACT have been sendinf ]
darrell briggs
01:14:56
out drectly to crew today?
darrell briggs
01:15:22
Have officials seen them?
Gavin Struthers
01:15:34
Yes we should - It felt like a desperate measure….
Chris Plevin
01:16:06
Various groups are using social media already to warn others in their grades of companies who are offering poor rates, terms and conditions, eg not paying travel and so on - this should continue and expand.
Charlotte Sewell
01:16:12
we talked about the letters at the start of the meeting - we do need a strategy of a response
Angus Hudson
01:16:16
Is there a threshold for membership turn out in order for a vote to be carried
Nicky Britt
01:16:17
We have seen the 'trust me, I'm from PACT' letters, yes
Chris Plevin
01:18:36
Word of mouth is the best way to convince others, well said Andy
Grainne McKee
01:18:51
Is it the case that we are voting YES to reject the offer?
Andy Jennings
01:19:06
That Is correct
Chris Plevin
01:19:13
YES to reject the offer! Correct!
Claire Williams
01:19:19
Grainne yes that is our current position
darrell briggs
01:20:25
i think it is worth addressing the omissions in this letter compared to the official offer, namely, Consecutive missing in their letter re: 6th days and the omission of the term ‘shooting’ from the letter
Claire Williams
01:21:03
Be assured everyone that all branches want to stick together - stronger branches supporting the weaker branches.
Chris Plevin
01:21:06
Record numbers joining now that the Bectu position is firm and committed to a better work life balance embodied in a watertight agreement.
Gavin Struthers
01:23:25
Yes Chris, and also down to the hard work for he entire negotiating team over the last 12 months. Everyone involved has been committed and brought the branches together. It’s been amazing to see.
Sy Turner
01:23:54
There is so much work going on and more coming. We crew continue to be in a strong position and productions struggle to fill in gaps in crew. And Producers bluffs are going to become even more apparent while we all negotiate our contracts.
Chris Durfy
01:24:09
Thanks all! Stronger together!
Andy Bailey
01:24:11
Well said Gavin
darrell briggs
01:24:41
Can we please confirm next steps to members, specifically that branches voted in favour of officially presenting PACT with our new terms in the event of a ‘reject' vote. Lets let members, and reps know that BECTU are going to make good on this democratic vote please.
darrell briggs
01:25:41
different approaches, but this was voted through with a democratic majority
darrell briggs
01:26:36
we have already voted on this position
darrell briggs
01:27:16
Sorry bt you havemt dealy
Paula Lamont
01:27:37
https://bectu.org.uk/get-involved-in-the-union/work-to-live-campaign/
helene lenszner
01:28:12
Exactly. It’s not about greed or putting Productions over a barrell
helene lenszner
01:28:49
‘barrel’! It’s about crew working in a mentally and physically healthy and sustainable way.
Chris Plevin
01:28:58
Production crew will also benefit hugely from reduction in working hours - they often don't get paid overtime and are in the office until all hours particularly on under resourced productions.
darrell briggs
01:29:08
you havent dealt with the issue and the result of the vote. We voted that, in the event of a vote rejecting PACTS terms that we would officially present our new T’s & c's to PACT members for ballot by their members, please explain and clarify this to members
darrell briggs
01:31:44
but we have not officially presented the terms as we voted to do
Tim Potter
01:32:37
Once the 2017 agreement falls then the whole agreement is up for negotiation
darrell briggs
01:32:37
Then lets hit the press with the fact that they wont ballo their members when thwy INSISTED that we ballot ours
Chris Plevin
01:32:47
Good point Darrell
darrell briggs
01:33:19
A production shooting 0800-1900 monday-friday willl see no increase in cost as per our new terms
Chris Plevin
01:33:57
Spencer was that an official answer from PACT that they won't ballot on our terms?Can we use that in comms?
Charlotte Sewell
01:34:04
We do have to be careful what we put in PACTs hands.
Margaret Spohrer
01:34:30
Scripts and casting on time would help everyone
Gavin Struthers
01:34:36
So can Bectu officially stand by the new T&C’s so we can make them more official. This will allow us to present them.
darrell briggs
01:34:46
PACT dont seem to care, not sure why we should
Sy Turner
01:35:03
PACT have constantly made this about money. It wont cost them anything extra if they do their jobs properly. Don’t go into production without scripts. Don’t expect crew to pick up the slack and go into OT.
Sy Turner
01:35:50
It’s not about money. It’s about time management. And giving we crew our lives back outside of work.
Charlotte Sewell
01:36:11
We have not completed/ signed off the T&Cs doc as far as some branches are concerned - it cannot be presented yet in its current form
S Dyer
01:37:31
Producers are just greedy liars and they show this all the time. Whatever they can exploit they will.
Chris Plevin
01:37:45
We can also respond at Branch level to the letters.
Chris Plevin
01:41:59
SD This is why we need watertight clauses in any proposed agreement or terms and conditions, without ambiguity or prone to misinterpretation
Chris Plevin
01:43:21
A question to all members here - is the webinar useful and informative? Was it worth attending?
Aaron Close
01:44:07
Well worth it imho
Chris Upson
01:44:08
Well worth thanks Chris, reassured by the quality of the chat from the hosts and negotiators here that BECTU genuinely want to cut down hours and kill of unpaid time
Andy Bailey
01:44:25
Definitely CP
Chris Upson
01:44:40
*kill off
Charlotte Sewell
01:45:06
we also want to support crew across all branches and support each other - UNITY is key here
S Dyer
01:45:40
Excellent webinar. We need to all encourage new members. Stringer together
S Dyer
01:45:52
*Stronger!
Chris Plevin
01:46:30
Yes, SD we can be string together! 🙂
Louisa Hawkins
01:47:01
Absolutely worth it! Thank you all for working so hard for us!
Charlotte Sewell
01:47:02
lots of string!!
S Dyer
01:47:19
Stranger Together...
Chris Plevin
01:47:28
Knot bad Charlotte!
S Dyer
01:47:36
!!
Charlotte Sewell
01:47:44
🤣
Aaron Close
01:47:46
Thanks folks ✊
Charlotte Sewell
01:47:51
Thank you
Gavin Struthers
01:47:58
Thanks all
Elizabeth Tait
01:48:01
thank you very much
Chris Plevin
01:48:01
Thanks to officials!
Chris Durfy
01:48:03
Cheers all!
Angus Hudson
01:48:03
Thank you!
S Dyer
01:48:05
Great Webinar - keep it up!